Large corporations are stealing from individuals on a grand scale. The argument is that if they aren’t being held accountable then they shouldn’t be protected under the laws they evade.
The commenter above wasn’t clear but the popular sentiment was about shoplifting essentials from large companies, not small shops and people’s homes.
It’s about solidarity with the poor. We don’t have to excuse the immorality but we should see that the companies that exploit us don’t deserve our help.
You’re talking about deeper issues here though. What you really mean is that the underlying problem is the government and how they’re in bed with big business.
That doesn’t mean it’s OK to steal. Robin Hood - you know the story of Robin Hood, ya? Stole from the rich and gave to the poor? But he didn’t, not at all. Robin Hood was a friend of King Richard, the richest of all. He took back what the Sherriff stole from the people - which isn’t theft. You cannot steal that in which does not belong to you.
And your claims are grand so they require grand evidence. What is an example of a large business stealing from individuals on a grand scale? Disliking your pay or disliking the cost of goods/services isn’t theft, that’s consensual adult human interaction. If you don’t like the deal, don’t consent to it. You can vote with your wallet and labor.
Theft is theft. What theft is, fundamentally, is when a person enacts an action upon another in which violates the will of the other within a logical order of operations as it pertains to their property.
For example, if you find a diamond in the woods that nobody else even knows exists and you desire exclusive authority over it then you own it. You don’t own it because I say so, you own it through a logical system because it literally cannot exist in any other feasible structure that isn’t wholly arbitrary. You own it because you did not violate the will of another in order to own it, and you own it because you desire to own it.
If someone else came along and picked up a rock that was lying next to that diamond and you do not care at all about it, then you did not own that rock to begin with and thus, the other person did not rob you in order to claim ownership over that rock.
But if you are with that diamond and someone else comes along and thinks they deserve that diamond more than you but the only way they can manifest their desire of exclusive authority over the diamond is to engage in an action of which violates your will, they would need to steal it from you, and you cannot own that in which you’ve stolen, nor can you steal that in which you own.
No other claim can be made rationally that dictates who should own that diamond. It doesn’t matter if the other person has 10 other diamonds and you have none. It doesn’t matter if that other person has food and you do not and that diamond could get you food. None of that matters, and you actually agree that it doesn’t matter because you already understand and act out in this world per a cardinal rule that you could never suffer another to violate your will, whatever it might be.
This is like the golden rule but ‘The Golden Rule’ is the ethical principle of treating others as you would want to be treated, but that concept is wholly flawed, because it does not take into account that humans have conflicting wills. Maybe I want to be punched in the fact, so the golden rule would then stipulate that I get to punch you in the face. Or what if you want a beautiful woman to have sex with you, do I get to rape her, then?
This principle is similar to the golden rule except that you have to understand that it is go unto others as THEY would want you to do to them, plus a little extra. More or less, human conflicts of wills are always contradictory and there are only two ways to resolve a will conflict, either arbitrary, or logically.
We both want X but only one of us can have X. How do we figure out who gets X?
Well I can murder you and take X, and that’s arbitrary because I just decided I want X more which is not a quantifiable stance. OR we understand that if I had X first I would not want you to take it from me and since you have X first, realizing this, I choose not to take it from you. That is the fundamental principle of ownership vs. theft.
Theft is when will is violated as it pertains to ownership. Ownership is a desire to own where you did not violate the will of another to obtain exclusive authority over. it’s that simple.
This is nonsense though. There is no bourgeoise. Bourgeoise is a placeholder for whatever it is you decide it is. I’ve studied Marx extensively. Marx’s constructs were fundamentally rooted in a notion outlined in an older age where there were individuals who owned things like factories, and workers in those factories. Today, what constitutes as capitol could be construed as anything that can make someone money. My computer is capitol, because I make a lot of money with it. in fact, different leftists will argue this exact concept. The “movement” can’t even all agree on what socialism should start as and what the end-game of communism would actually be.
The notion of communism is in no small part utterly nonsensical. The spiritual concept of communism being a system without government or money, but to stipulate that is to assert a nonsense argument and shows a lack of fundmental understanding of what either government or money is.
Government could be fundamentally described as any relative force monopoly. If the formal government dissolved tomorrow and the people in my neighborhood got together and agreed to protect one another from others vandalizing, stealing, or doing harm to the people therein, that is a small government. If another neighboring government came with threats of violence and overtook them and forced their rules upon them, that was just a small war where one government prevailed. You cannot “do away with government”. Money is similar. You cannot do away with money. Money isn’t even real. Roughly 90 to 92% of the world’s money is actually digital - 1’s and 0’s. It isn’t real stuff, it’s basically some kind of merit that trades had happened or are promised to happen in the future. If I mow your lawn in the summer and come winter ask you to plow my driveway and you keep refusing, I’ll mentally tally how unwilling to return my favors to you are until eventually I start refusing to help you. This is money - it’s just another way of looking at it.
Removing money means removing hierarchy, and that isn’t possible. The mere thought that you believe communism is even a workable system in concept shows a lack of understanding of concept. There isn’t a single human alive who will not put things into a hierarchical structure of some sort based on how they feel in the moment or their fears of the future, whatever they may be.
If we both want X we have to figure out how X is made and either work together to make X or trade consensually with those who can make X.
What is bad? Murder, rape, theft, fraud. We can work together to stop the bad. That should be our goal. In doing so, we will, through proxy, reduce the problems that arise in our modern societies.
There is no club, only ideologues. I am part of no club, no country, no group. I am the greatest minority of all, the individual. Nothing else is real.
A cop’s role should be to analyze a situation and if given probable cause, make an arrest. That detained individual is then given a trial - assuming the victim(s) wants to press charges - and if convicted of the crime through due process, punished accordingly.
I never once said what I felt should have happened in this particular situation. Not once. In fact, I’ve openly admitted that I do not have enough information to know what went wrong.
If you want the cops to come deal with the alleged theft you’re not anti-government. You are explicitly describing how you want the government to function.
Oh for sure. When I say I am anti-government I’m referring to current-age governments. The only just government would be one where violence is only utilized to protect people from things like murder, rape, theft, and fraud. Government wouldn’t take any taxes at all, as all funding would be consensual. Government would fundamentally function as any other business and would need to provide quality enough goods and services to warrant people paying them for them.
At this state, “government” would be kind of a silly idea. It would be like if in this neighborhood you paid Amazon for Amazon Protective Services at $19.99 a month and over there, Microsoft Safeguard, for $22.99/month.
And you would send your kids to a “private” school (the notion of public property is a misnomer), and more or less nothing would be RUN by a single overarching government. There would still be costs and if you refused to partake you wouldn’t receive those services.
Take roads, for example. In the future one option would be for homeowner groups to band together and buy up stretches of roads. Then those groups could further get together and make large-scale arrangements. Say 100 different such groups all created a Road of Virginia Association where 90% of the roads in the state of Virginia are owned by that organization. Now that group sets their own rules and governances. Maybe what they do is say, to drive on our roads you have to pass tollways where your car is scanned and you pay online per scan - maybe something as trivial as like, $0.10 a toll or something. Then other groups could follow suit.
If some billionaire bought up a stretch of road and said you have to pay me $1,000 a month to drive on it, nobody is going to drive on it, or other people could get together and just build a parallel road and drive on that, or more people/businesses will just blacklist that asshole from things (because now we have TRUE freedom of association), or maybe more people utilize drones so roads become more and more unneccesary.
There’s an infinite number of potential solutions but a tyrannical top-down government was never a good one. The answer across time has always been less government. We’re moving in that direction, for the most part it seems anyway. There are fewer dictatorships today than ever before. Fewer atrocities committed to a nation’s own peoples than in past times. Fewer entire nations wiped clean from the planet than ever before. More people climbing out of poverty than any time prior.
I’m not stupid. I don’t anticipate any semblance of utopia. Life is messy, and it always will be.
Large corporations are stealing from individuals on a grand scale. The argument is that if they aren’t being held accountable then they shouldn’t be protected under the laws they evade.
The commenter above wasn’t clear but the popular sentiment was about shoplifting essentials from large companies, not small shops and people’s homes.
It’s about solidarity with the poor. We don’t have to excuse the immorality but we should see that the companies that exploit us don’t deserve our help.
You’re talking about deeper issues here though. What you really mean is that the underlying problem is the government and how they’re in bed with big business.
That doesn’t mean it’s OK to steal. Robin Hood - you know the story of Robin Hood, ya? Stole from the rich and gave to the poor? But he didn’t, not at all. Robin Hood was a friend of King Richard, the richest of all. He took back what the Sherriff stole from the people - which isn’t theft. You cannot steal that in which does not belong to you.
And your claims are grand so they require grand evidence. What is an example of a large business stealing from individuals on a grand scale? Disliking your pay or disliking the cost of goods/services isn’t theft, that’s consensual adult human interaction. If you don’t like the deal, don’t consent to it. You can vote with your wallet and labor.
You can’t vote while you’re starving. Wage theft is theft
Theft is theft. What theft is, fundamentally, is when a person enacts an action upon another in which violates the will of the other within a logical order of operations as it pertains to their property.
For example, if you find a diamond in the woods that nobody else even knows exists and you desire exclusive authority over it then you own it. You don’t own it because I say so, you own it through a logical system because it literally cannot exist in any other feasible structure that isn’t wholly arbitrary. You own it because you did not violate the will of another in order to own it, and you own it because you desire to own it.
If someone else came along and picked up a rock that was lying next to that diamond and you do not care at all about it, then you did not own that rock to begin with and thus, the other person did not rob you in order to claim ownership over that rock.
But if you are with that diamond and someone else comes along and thinks they deserve that diamond more than you but the only way they can manifest their desire of exclusive authority over the diamond is to engage in an action of which violates your will, they would need to steal it from you, and you cannot own that in which you’ve stolen, nor can you steal that in which you own.
No other claim can be made rationally that dictates who should own that diamond. It doesn’t matter if the other person has 10 other diamonds and you have none. It doesn’t matter if that other person has food and you do not and that diamond could get you food. None of that matters, and you actually agree that it doesn’t matter because you already understand and act out in this world per a cardinal rule that you could never suffer another to violate your will, whatever it might be.
This is like the golden rule but ‘The Golden Rule’ is the ethical principle of treating others as you would want to be treated, but that concept is wholly flawed, because it does not take into account that humans have conflicting wills. Maybe I want to be punched in the fact, so the golden rule would then stipulate that I get to punch you in the face. Or what if you want a beautiful woman to have sex with you, do I get to rape her, then?
This principle is similar to the golden rule except that you have to understand that it is go unto others as THEY would want you to do to them, plus a little extra. More or less, human conflicts of wills are always contradictory and there are only two ways to resolve a will conflict, either arbitrary, or logically.
We both want X but only one of us can have X. How do we figure out who gets X?
Well I can murder you and take X, and that’s arbitrary because I just decided I want X more which is not a quantifiable stance. OR we understand that if I had X first I would not want you to take it from me and since you have X first, realizing this, I choose not to take it from you. That is the fundamental principle of ownership vs. theft.
Theft is when will is violated as it pertains to ownership. Ownership is a desire to own where you did not violate the will of another to obtain exclusive authority over. it’s that simple.
Everything else is nonsense.
we both can have X if we work together against the bourgeoise
This is nonsense though. There is no bourgeoise. Bourgeoise is a placeholder for whatever it is you decide it is. I’ve studied Marx extensively. Marx’s constructs were fundamentally rooted in a notion outlined in an older age where there were individuals who owned things like factories, and workers in those factories. Today, what constitutes as capitol could be construed as anything that can make someone money. My computer is capitol, because I make a lot of money with it. in fact, different leftists will argue this exact concept. The “movement” can’t even all agree on what socialism should start as and what the end-game of communism would actually be.
The notion of communism is in no small part utterly nonsensical. The spiritual concept of communism being a system without government or money, but to stipulate that is to assert a nonsense argument and shows a lack of fundmental understanding of what either government or money is.
Government could be fundamentally described as any relative force monopoly. If the formal government dissolved tomorrow and the people in my neighborhood got together and agreed to protect one another from others vandalizing, stealing, or doing harm to the people therein, that is a small government. If another neighboring government came with threats of violence and overtook them and forced their rules upon them, that was just a small war where one government prevailed. You cannot “do away with government”. Money is similar. You cannot do away with money. Money isn’t even real. Roughly 90 to 92% of the world’s money is actually digital - 1’s and 0’s. It isn’t real stuff, it’s basically some kind of merit that trades had happened or are promised to happen in the future. If I mow your lawn in the summer and come winter ask you to plow my driveway and you keep refusing, I’ll mentally tally how unwilling to return my favors to you are until eventually I start refusing to help you. This is money - it’s just another way of looking at it.
Removing money means removing hierarchy, and that isn’t possible. The mere thought that you believe communism is even a workable system in concept shows a lack of understanding of concept. There isn’t a single human alive who will not put things into a hierarchical structure of some sort based on how they feel in the moment or their fears of the future, whatever they may be.
If we both want X we have to figure out how X is made and either work together to make X or trade consensually with those who can make X.
What is bad? Murder, rape, theft, fraud. We can work together to stop the bad. That should be our goal. In doing so, we will, through proxy, reduce the problems that arise in our modern societies.
petit-bourgeoise that thinks theyre apart of the club for 100
There is no club, only ideologues. I am part of no club, no country, no group. I am the greatest minority of all, the individual. Nothing else is real.
Holy fuck are you doingthestuff’s new account since his got nuked for being Nazi bootlicking scum like you?
I don’t know who that is. I’m not a Nazi. I am anti-government, in fact.
So anti-government that you want them to come and prosecute someone who allegedly stole a pack of diapers?
Lol. Lmao.
I never said that.
A cop’s role should be to analyze a situation and if given probable cause, make an arrest. That detained individual is then given a trial - assuming the victim(s) wants to press charges - and if convicted of the crime through due process, punished accordingly.
I never once said what I felt should have happened in this particular situation. Not once. In fact, I’ve openly admitted that I do not have enough information to know what went wrong.
If you want the cops to come deal with the alleged theft you’re not anti-government. You are explicitly describing how you want the government to function.
Oh for sure. When I say I am anti-government I’m referring to current-age governments. The only just government would be one where violence is only utilized to protect people from things like murder, rape, theft, and fraud. Government wouldn’t take any taxes at all, as all funding would be consensual. Government would fundamentally function as any other business and would need to provide quality enough goods and services to warrant people paying them for them.
At this state, “government” would be kind of a silly idea. It would be like if in this neighborhood you paid Amazon for Amazon Protective Services at $19.99 a month and over there, Microsoft Safeguard, for $22.99/month.
And you would send your kids to a “private” school (the notion of public property is a misnomer), and more or less nothing would be RUN by a single overarching government. There would still be costs and if you refused to partake you wouldn’t receive those services.
Take roads, for example. In the future one option would be for homeowner groups to band together and buy up stretches of roads. Then those groups could further get together and make large-scale arrangements. Say 100 different such groups all created a Road of Virginia Association where 90% of the roads in the state of Virginia are owned by that organization. Now that group sets their own rules and governances. Maybe what they do is say, to drive on our roads you have to pass tollways where your car is scanned and you pay online per scan - maybe something as trivial as like, $0.10 a toll or something. Then other groups could follow suit.
If some billionaire bought up a stretch of road and said you have to pay me $1,000 a month to drive on it, nobody is going to drive on it, or other people could get together and just build a parallel road and drive on that, or more people/businesses will just blacklist that asshole from things (because now we have TRUE freedom of association), or maybe more people utilize drones so roads become more and more unneccesary.
There’s an infinite number of potential solutions but a tyrannical top-down government was never a good one. The answer across time has always been less government. We’re moving in that direction, for the most part it seems anyway. There are fewer dictatorships today than ever before. Fewer atrocities committed to a nation’s own peoples than in past times. Fewer entire nations wiped clean from the planet than ever before. More people climbing out of poverty than any time prior.
I’m not stupid. I don’t anticipate any semblance of utopia. Life is messy, and it always will be.
Capitalism is a top down tyranical system. You get that, right? There is no such thing as an anarcho-capitalist, you’re literally Just a capitalist.