• foggy@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    Am I awful for suggesting El sayed with AOC as vice instead?

    There are too many misogynistic shitbags and the race is too important.

    I want AOC to be our first female president, but 2028 seems like a bad time to risk it. 😕

    Woulda preferred she ran in 2024 instead of Kamala.

    She’s got my vote either way. Just, shit ain’t stable, and plenty of the folks that don’t support Donald Trump will never vote for a woman president.

    Sigh.

      • kinkles@sh.itjust.works
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        1 day ago

        Hearing him talk in an American English accent would probably disarm at least half of the casual racist crowd.

          • foggy@lemmy.world
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            3 hours ago

            Both religions extremists put all women beneath men of religions they see as opposing their own, regardless of that woman’s religion.

            It’s ridiculous to me that anyone would think the general misogynistic christofascist leaning US would endorse a woman before a Muslim man. Asinine.

            • rumimevlevi@sh.itjust.works
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              50 minutes ago

              Reality disagree with you. It is the same BS as the idea that Kamala lost because she is a women when Hilary won the popular vote. Ilhan Omar was targeted because he is a women or being muslim ?

    • unknownuserunknownlocation@kbin.earth
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      1 day ago

      It’s not that clear. Hillary won the popular vote by several million votes. Hillary Clinton - yes, that clusterfuck of a candidate. Yes, there were plenty of misogynists who voted against her on the basis of her being a woman. Many also voted for her because she’s a woman.

      • Zaktor@sopuli.xyz
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        1 day ago

        Yes, there were plenty of misogynists who voted against her on the basis of her being a woman.

        Or, y’know, because they’re Republicans. Anyone with misogyny as an overriding political belief system isn’t an available vote for Democrats. They don’t just want a male leader, they want a misogynist that will validate their feelings and shield them from consequences. And the Republicans will always provide that to them, with or without a penis in the pants.

    • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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      1 day ago

      Actually the woman thing is very much unsubstantiated. Were there any exit polls pointing to gender being a significant factor? Given that even MAGAts can elect women into Congress every now and then, I think even the misogynists of America will just deal with it. If anything a Muslim president would be an even bigger risk.

      • Carmakazi@piefed.social
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        1 day ago

        I think the opposition will find or invent levers to work against any candidate, even the most normative one they can find. The identity mud-slinging followed the propaganda, not people’s sincere beliefs. And the propaganda followed the opposition to socialism.

        I’d worry about strong policy messaging before how palatable the human being is to the worst among us, because I don’t think the latter’s a winnable fight.

        • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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          1 day ago

          I don’t think there’s a significant difference between El Sayed and AOC on a policy basis. If I had to say something El Sayed would probably be the more principled anti-Zionist, and he doesn’t call himself a scary socialist, but for the most part I don’t think the median Dem voter cares about policy positions on that level. I’d go for AOC just not to risk a Dem seat tbh.

        • Zaktor@sopuli.xyz
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          1 day ago

          And importantly you don’t need to win the worst among us, just the better 51%.

      • foggy@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        Hey show me some stats to chew on. I am not out here stating facts just my gut feeling. Why I lead with an apology.

        I’d love it if it were true, but my personal experience leans towards El Sayed getting a statistically significant proportion of the votes any woman wouldn’t.

        That’s a problem that needs to be addressed, but like, I am sorry ladies. It needs to be addressed after we secure your right to vote/right the ship meaningfully.

        I digress. I’m here for it. I just worry.

        • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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          1 day ago

          That’s the thing: There are no stats showing that a candidate being a woman is a significant disadvantage in American elections. It feels like it should be, but there’s just zero evidence showing it is. It doesn’t even show up in post-election polling. Meanwhile I couldn’t more recent data but a significant number of Americans across the political spectrum does not like Muslims.

          Edit: Found more recent data. In any case I think the point makes itself; if we’re choosing by whose demographic palatable to the American electorate (which is probably not the best method) then it’s AOC all the way.

    • 🌞 Alexander Daychilde 🌞@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      There are too many misogynistic shitbags

      Doesn’t matter who runs, fascist propaganda will attack them. Similar concerns about Obama, although not as severe because fascism was less out in the open.

      The times are calling for real progressives. I think that’s the only way to overcome the fascists. Not with Right Wing Lite™ like Newsom.

    • 4am@lemmy.zip
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      1 day ago

      If you don’t put up an AOC with huge numbers then you’re gonna get a John Ossoff or a Gavin Newsom and they’ll either continue to do Joe Zidenism or Trump will win a “third term because fuck it”

    • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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      22 hours ago

      shit ain’t stable

      Shit being unstable is exactly why we need change. Decades of frustration with neoliberal stability is why things are unstable and why Trump became a thing in the first place. We even had the most centrist old white male saltine cracker we could find for four years trying to restore the stability of the pre-Trump neoliberal order, and what happened? Voters went straight back to Trump.

      That’s not an endorsement of AOC specifically but just saying I don’t think that logic makes sense. If we can’t outline a real alternative to both Trumpism and neoliberalism, and actually deliver on affordability, then Trumpism will just keep returning with different faces. Trump should be the wake-up call that there’s problems with just maintaining the status quo.

    • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      El Sayed isn’t DSA. AOC is.

      If El Sayed wants to join the party they are more than welcome, but you shouldn’t expect DSA to endorse someone not DSA.

    • Obviouslywrong@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      She wasn’t even old enough to be president when the primary started. It’s not a rush. Following the traditional get experience in Congress and federal cabinet position is better.

    • Guy Dudeman@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      I think you’re right, and you can call me a “Bernie Bro” all you want… If you compare Abdul’s prowess in terms of public speaking on the fly with AOC’s you will see a big difference and Abdul wins hands-down. He will also get the misogynist vote, which yes, is important, as we saw in 2016.

      • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        This has been my biggest critique of AOC for the previous 4 years. After her tussle with Pelosi and getting banged up in that, she started taking only much safer media pieces. She stopped going on basically any media where journalists would challenge her, and also only took “forum” type questions where she had the mic and the questioner didnt.

        So there was a solid 3, 3 and a half years of that, and she got soft. She lost her edge from 2017. But Bernie brought her back out with their combined tour. And since then she’s been sharpening her edge. She still wont take contested media spaces. But she’s doing better.

        Ro Khanna has been far better at taking controversial media. Same with El Sayed. AOC needs to sharpen her game here.

      • foggy@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        I’d be so happy with 2 years of El Sayed / AOC leading to 2 years of AOC / El Sayed. At least at this moment in both of their track records and given the current state of the US.

        You ask me this in 2022, I’m here for AOC 100%, In just sour on how my party treated Kamala. I don’t trust them to do AOC justice in a campaign after that.

        • TheFogan@programming.dev
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          1 day ago

          You ask me this in 2022, I’m here for AOC 100%, In just sour on how my party treated Kamala. I don’t trust them to do AOC justice in a campaign after that.

          I think with Kamela it’s a lot more complicated there though. She basically had the drawbacks of both being a newcomer and an incumbent at the same time.

        • Guy Dudeman@lemmy.world
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          1 day ago

          I think it would be rad to have the scenario you talk about… the two of them, but they switch roles.

          Kamala tried, but she was never a favorite of anyone even during the primary.

        • foggy@lemmy.world
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          1 day ago

          More of them will. That’s my point. Especially if fox news keeps sexualizing him.

        • Guy Dudeman@lemmy.world
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          1 day ago

          I think you’d be surprised. All you have to do is listen to him to know he’s on the up-and-up. I think they would respect his confidence. Whereas AOC is already the new “most hated woman in politics” now that Hillary and Pelosi are out of it, in their minds. She has no chance.

          • crandall@lemmy.today
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            1 day ago

            I gotta agree, as much as racism and misogyny overlap, I think a lot of people will vote for someone brown before they’ll vote for a woman.