- cross-posted to:
- europe@feddit.org
- cross-posted to:
- europe@feddit.org
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Microsoft’s specification has previously caused problems for other vendors like LibreOffice’s The Document Foundation (TDF) too. There is some controversial history behind this feud between the two formats
No, there was no feud. What happened is that when Microsoft had to create an open document format that everyone could use, they purposefully made their format impossible to implement by anyone. IIRC, The open doc forma spec does it all and is 1500 pages large, whereas the Microsoft format doc is well over 6000 pages long and contains closed parts still anyways.
This is just standard Microsoft strategy and it worked again and dumb fucks again decided to stay married to Microsoft Microsoft because at apparently they love being abused
Yeah, this is how monopolistic digital companies operate. Every time you try and pivot from their bullshit “ecosystem” you encounter “technical difficulties” because they’ve surreptitiously extended their tentacles beyond their products. Getting off of these systems will take a concentrated effort and it’s unfortunate that governments just aren’t willing to do it.
This is not particularly surprising since Collabora leverages the Open Document Format (ODF) rather than Microsoft’s proprietary OOXML specification. Microsoft’s specification has previously caused problems for other vendors like LibreOffice’s The Document Foundation (TDF) too.
While it seems elections killed this initiative, the above is why I recommended EuroOffice or OnlyOffice for converts. It has a more MS feel and much, much better support for conversions.
I’m still confused why TDF hasn’t put more time into opening other formats.
You can be sure Microsoft was working its utmost hardest to make this not work, and make it look bad. All the more reason to get away from them as fast as possible.
The best way is to stop using office documents altogether. It’s legacy computing that at shouldn’t be needed any more.
pilot phase with 38 ministry employees kicked off last year to trial Collabora’s suite with Office documents. However, this trial was terminated when elections took place earlier this year. A spokesperson confirmed that the experiment had concluded, and would not resume again. They also confirmed that no evaluation benchmarking Collabora’s performance against Microsoft Office had taken place either.
So it was a performance more or less, without any plan to actually switch.
When elections took place could mean someone that won was pro America or Microsoft
There was no real change of power, Denmark is still ruled by their xenophobic self-declared social democrats busy teaming up with Italian post-fascists to undermine international rule of law. While there is little meaningful difference between Mette Fredriksen and Georgia Meloni she’s pretty much as left as Danish politics goes, the only parties left of this mess (the Ø and Å lists, not kidding) are marginal and have never had real power.
Traditionally Denmark has had no political line for themselves, and have followed America completely. They are completely new to trying to think original thoughts in terms of foreign policy, and we should expect to see them stumble a bit. I guess it’s refreshing to see them pretend to try.
Yeah, even little pockets of US government are making Linux desktop builds because of licensing and hardware constraints.
Kind of hard words like xenophobic, fascist for parties democratically voted for by the majority of voters.
Georgia Meloni represents Fratelli d’Italia, the successor party of the Alleanza Nazionale, which in turn is the successor of the Movimento Sociale Italiano, which was Mussolini’s party. The succession is direct enough that Fratelli d’Italia still uses the same logo as MSI; a tricolor flame.
See if you can spot the similarity:
If anything I was being generous to Georgia Meloni by referring to her party as post-fascist rather than straight out fascist. There is a clear continuation here. This is not a matter of opinion.
As for the Social Democrats in Denmark being xenophobic, there’s ample evidence. The fact that they would introduce ghetto laws to get rid of immigrant neighbourhoods - and even call them ghetto laws themselves - is one interesting high-profile example.
So it stops being xenophobic or fascist when a majority elects them? The literal Nazis were elected by a plurality; would more votes have made them not fascist or not xenophobic?
I dont know any of denmarks politics, but both can be true. The NSDAP was more or less democratically elected, MAGA as well
Saying the NSDAP was democratically elected to power is a perpetuating a fascist lie. The NSDAP was always using undemocratic methods, such as political violence and voter intimidation, and finally, outright banning and persecuting political opponents and entire political parties. That is not being elected more or less democratically.
If you have been taught bad history, then enlighten yourself, rather than continuing to give fascists false legitimacy.
I have been taught good history, by my professors at uni, I am teaching history myself actually, have today actually.
Of course they had their propaganda, scare tactics against opponents and so on. Just like all populists, from the AfD, to MAGA. But they were in ar least one State in the Koalition, so part of the government, in 1930.
After that they were more and more populistic and hateful and despite that they won more and more votes over the following years
Errm, I don’t know how to tell you this, but…
This is a real quote:
I don’t know why you don’t already know this, but fascists and xenophobes are capable of voting as well.
It specifically says that performance wasn’t benchmarked.
The root cause is incompatibility with Microsoft’s proprietary document format causing fuckiness for LibreOffice based Collabora. E.g. formatting issues.
They could’ve tried the Russian alternative but I guess they’d prefer to gargle Microsoft’s fetid cock some more.
Performance as in performative
Doesnt Office export to .odt too? Was any IT savy person involved in this?
The format isn’t the problem; the rules for rendering content outside the PDF are more suggestions.
And honestly, even if the rules were adhered to, there’s no way in F that Microsoft would comply just for this very reason
The rules for rendering PDFs are also mere suggestions. Formatting is just fucked in general. The only reliable way to preserve formatting is a .jpeg image screenshot
the Russian alternative
You say that like it’s not simply swapping which one you have in your mouth.
It isn’t the same thing, no. The Russian alternative got forked by some EU corporation and relabeled to Euro Office. Further, it’s FOSS, so it can be truly independently audited unlike Microslop’s garbage.
I will urge LibreOffice/Collabora any day. I don’t really care for the Russian BS suite because it still adheres to Microsoft’s proprietary “open” document standards, and so long as you use that bullshit you’ll never own your own documents. You’ll always be beholden to their garbage one way or another.
This is borderline fake news. This pilot project was launched poorly by the ministry responsible for digitisation because the minister wanted his own project running so he could bash other ministries for not doing anything. It’s ironic, like rain on your wedding day.
There are multiple pilot projects across the Danish range of ministries. Many are in much better shape because they’ve actually been thought through: example
sounds like they didn’t try very hard
They’re getting threatened by the US and they can’t even change a word processor, lol good luck to them
Doing these things is not easy and they take a lot of time and effort. But from a short look at the article it seems that there were issues with expectations:
the officials were running into formatting issues such as blank pages when opening Office documents in Collabora and vice versa
Like what do you expect when using an ODF first tool for OpenXML (Microsoft Office) documents? Euro-Office would be a better fit, from my ONLYOFFICE experience. It’s not perfect but it’s the more drop-in solution for their use case. It’s sad that this has come to an end because of what a good, experienced Linux user could tell them even before they began.
I see this all the damned time. Some people are obsessed with pages breaking at a heading or figure so they insert manual page breaks all over the damned place.
Even the slightest font kerning difference and you end up with blank or mostly blank page when some manual page break gets pushed to the next page.
Delete the manual page break that never should have been there? Nah, just cancel everything.
too quick to surrender
100% it was a hot dumpster fire of a Sharepoint deployment that made it impossible to migrate.
Has anyone discovered exactly what SharePoint does yet? /s
They got the call.
It seems they tried to ditch Microsoft Office but to keep docx. What they need to do is to ditch docx first and start using open document format, then let the software follow.
I don’t think that’s very likely as nobody seem to understand what file formats are or why they matter. So the second best option is probably to wait for Euro-Office to hopefully take off, and then hopefully Euro-Office can change default to ODT at some point in the future and we can finally get rid of docx once and for all.
Yo be fair, alternatives to office suck… Office is by far the superior choice.
People using alternatives usually say “this is enought for my knowledge/use”
Libre office is at least on par. In my experience it has far fewer bugs and is far less frustrating to use.
It’s fine if you don’t want to do complex stuff and most importantly are the only one using it, offline. Good luck if you want to start sharing over a network for multi user editing, viewing, reviewing etc which is what any org needs
Libre office certainly exceeds the web edition of office in functionality. I’m not aware of a gap to the desktop version, but I’m not a power user for sure. That lack of multi-user editing is almost a feature for me given how often other people have screwed up my spreadsheets in Excel.
What i think really happens is that people compare whilst trying to swap documents back and fore with MS office. When judged on that level it comes off poorly, but that’s not a fair metric. MS has intentionally worked against compatibility.
So TDF has a fascinating article on their blog discussing how the Austrian military made the switch. It took a lot of planning and there was a huge amount of work to help move people along.
I suspect this may not have been the case here. But I’m sure we’ll find out the gory details soon enough
I swear I have been reading this article for 20 years. Some gov org balks at Microsoft cost and pitches free alternative. They dont plan on spending extra to complete the transition and then dont adequately train or build out the infrastructure.
Replacing an intrenched system with a free software alternative successfully will require more money in the first few years, not less.
